Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco
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10 comments

1 John Muir { 02.20.10 at 4:20 am }

Been a while since I visited the site from my Mac instead of iPod. Click2flash is having a party…

2 stefn { 02.20.10 at 9:07 am }

The rap I heard now is that Apple uses Mpeg4, which will require licensing, while Flash is free and open in that sense. See Jeremy Allaire’s post at TechCrunch this week. Daniel?

3 William { 02.20.10 at 10:01 am }

Bookmarked. The biggest MYTH is that people won’t buy the iPad. The iPad is the perfect consumer device plus its from Apple.

4 mr_kitty { 02.20.10 at 10:23 am }

First off, I’d like to request the return of the transcripts. Your video is lovely, but YouTube on my iPhone has a tendency to crap out a quarter of the way through (oh the irony).

Second, these pissing contests are getting very old. If Adobe were seriously interested in delivering flash to the iPhone/iTouch/iPad all they would need to do is what 1Password and many other iPhone devs have done, and take the existing html rendering engine of the SDK and wrap it around their runtime and submit it as a stand alone application.

Sure, Apple could “Google Voice” it, but with the amount of gruff they’ve gotten from pundits over not having flash, and from the FCC for blocking GV, it’s doubtful that they would. But, it’s a moot point because Adobe hasn’t bothered to even try.

And why would they? That would be innovative & proactive (things that company abandoned years ago) and run the risk of confirming that their technology actually is irrelevant — what happens if Adobe builds a stand alone app and no one uses it? Easier and safer to just bemoan Apple’s disregard of “consumer choice”. (If you have a cross to bear you might as well use it as a crutch.)

And finally, it’s just laughable that someone would contend with a straight face that Flash is free and open in comparison to MPEG4. That makes about as much sense and is about as factually accurate as the dolts that support MP3 over AAC because it’s free & open.

Flash is a container format, just like MPEG4. You can’t develop that container format without Adobe’s Flash dev tools. Which are NOT free.

Personally I long for the day that “Skip Intro” finally goes the way of the floppy disk and the Compuserv GIF.

I’m still waiting for someone to harness the PDF desktop renderer of Mac OS X and make a Cocoa native Illustrator style drawing app. It’d make the perfect companion to these new Cocoa native PS replacements and finally render all of Adobe as irrelevant.

5 gdover { 02.20.10 at 10:46 am }

Flash is not just a multimedia delivery platform, it is also a development platform suitable for non programmer artists as well as heavy duty scripters. My question is what will replace this?

For the iPad to succeed as the preferred platform for professional multimedia magazine and newspaper delivery, there needs to be a drag ‘n’ drop development application suitable for designers that may or may not require touch-up with a scripting language.

A publisher should be able to knock out a multi-touch, multimedia magazine on a daily basis, at a minimum cost, with quality and content we are willing to pay for. A small team of underpaid designers should be able to pull this off without knowing a single line of Java Script. Of course this does not describe the current state of the Flash Development tool, but it is all we have right now.

I also believe the multimedia magazine should be a protected, self-contained object not compatible with the web or HTML, but this is another topic.

So will Apple provide the development tool to make this work?

[That's true, but Flash is Adobe's technology. It should have embraced open standards a long time ago, and instead chose to wrap up a proprietary version of JavaScript with tools that nobody else can improve upon. It's Adobe that should be giving us tools for creating HTML5 content.

I think it's a need that the market will address as soon as market share for non-Flash devices reaches a critical mass. But you're right, it also seems like an opportunity for Apple. It wants people to create iTunes LP/Extras, which are essentially HTML/JavaScript packages, so a tool along those lines might be forthcoming. - Dan ]

6 danieleran { 02.20.10 at 1:55 pm }

@stefn “The rap I heard now is that Apple uses Mpeg4, which will require licensing, while Flash is free and open in that sense. See Jeremy Allaire’s post at TechCrunch this week. Daniel?”

Apple is licensing MPEG-4/H.264, but so is Adobe, as Flash is now using the H.264 codec and the F4V container (which is MPEG-4). So that does not seem to make any sense as an argument.

“Flash” is not the opposite of MPEG-4 in any sense. The only people who would say that are people who don’t understand what either one is. So it makes sense that idea would appear on TechCrunch.

7 danieleran { 02.20.10 at 4:10 pm }

Comments from the original Flash video I did a couple weeks ago, and reposted here on RoughlyDraftedVideo

Views: 4,413
humanfactorsdoc (1 day ago)
If it were not for video in flash, I think it would be dead already. Before video was on the web, a lot of folks hated it (except for people that played those flash games on uproar, etc., which, arguably, would be better suited for an app now anyway.)… I’m not a representative sample, but I think that I played a flash game a few years ago. I will not miss the constant adobe updates and funky flash ads (I actual have a browser plugins to block all flash and convert youtube to HTML5 video :-)

codeincomplete (5 days ago)
The only reason why the iPad does not have Flash is because it is against the Apple iPhone SDK terms and conditions. Flash would run better on an iPad because it has a faster processor than running Flash on a jailbroken iPhone. Just because there are alternatives to a technology does not imply that it is not needed. The question is the lack of flash be a key factor in choosing an alternative to the iPad? For my nephew that loves flash games of today it would.

MikehMike01 (6 days ago)
You’ve got it completely wrong.

Flash is an absolute must from a CONSUMER standpoint. Many significant websites (Youtube included) run on Flash.

You can talk about HTML5 until you’re blue in the face, but if the websites people frequent use flash, and not HTML5 (as is the case now, and in the forseeable future) Flash is a requirement.

P.S. Don’t act like Adobe IS Flash. Ever heard of Photoshop?

TalesOfWar (1 day ago)
YouTube doesn’t actually run on Flash, they mearly use it as a front end delivery mechanism. All of the videos playing through it are H.264 and can run on any front end as long as it’s pointing to it and supported by it. HTML5 can play H.264 video just fine, check out the beta for it if you use Chrome or Safari.

johnmonk66 (1 week ago)
wtf?
ipad will be model for tablet computers? fujitsu is what tablet computers should be
and you ever watch hulu? can’t on ipad
you need to remake this, you are not sounding intelligent

TalesOfWar (1 day ago)
Hulu are making an app and considering the move to HTML5 too. Also, Hulu isn’t important, only people in the US can use it, so why should Apple give a fuck about something on a device being sold GLOBALLY? Simple answer, they don’t. Plus, it’s not Apple’s problem, it’s Hulu’s. If they want to compete on the iPad, they have to make an app or support what the iPad does. Simple as.

johnmonk66 (1 day ago)
70 percent of apple sales are in the US
And hulu does not need to compete, there is no other site like hulu, it is apple that needs to make a device people can use if it will ever be the netboook replacement apple wants it to be

MikehMike01 (1 day ago)
@TalesOfWar Apple is an American company that sells the bulk of its products to America.

They give a “fuck” about American consumers.

Don’t get me wrong. I hate Flash with a passion. But this is the complete wrong attitude to have. The iPad should conform to modern standards (however awful they might be), not the other way around.

And if flash dies? Then its no big deal. But if Flash doesn’t? A very, very, big deal. And a deal breaker for many.

sc0pl355 (1 week ago)
dude, decent video, but cut out the parts where you are thinking of the proper way to say things.

TheLxxy (1 week ago)
Great video. I dislike Flash for many of the reasons you and other commentators have noted here…flash games are intriguing, and maybe the only hurdle to kill it but the flash standard it’s self is not designed nor is it truly effective for these activities anyway. HTML5 is a standard that is inherently cross platform and royalty free–embrace the future, no matter how far off it may seem.

Spencerwalker21 (1 week ago)
Hey fanboys just because Steve jobs said it was better than netbooks don’t buy it no camera no sd slot only minimal ports no 1080p no multitasking no adobe flash closed os netbooks are about 200 cheaper and it includes everything pad doesn’t

Spencerwalker21 (1 week ago)
Hey fanboy try watching 75 percent of videos on ipad you can’t mother fucker

BXRepresenter (1 week ago)
good stuff, i’m going through your ten myth videos now. i also really like your site and visit it often.

keep up the great work

macflyfilm (1 week ago)
People who want Flash are people who play Farmville and similar Flash games on Facebook. Although I’m glad this will help Flash die, these people have legitimate concerns. To dismiss this is stupid. Will this change over time? Probably. Do people have a right to bitch and moan? Certainly.

sontarieh (1 week ago)
ajax can’t do much more than a jumping box tittle, and html 5 may be the solution, but the standart set to be ready in 2012. make no mistake, i use the clicktoflash plugin, i don’t like advertising, i wish the web was lighter, flash is heavy, etc… etc… but if you want a graphical cool website, only a flash-type engine can do it so far. html 5 may do the trick, but not as of now! so what to do in the meantime? stop designing cool websites?

sontarieh (1 week ago)
this is my first comment ever. just sharing this because it took years for me to really feel the need to do this. i’ve been an apple fan boy for most of my life, and have said the same things about flash until very recently… when i realized that i simply can’t build my website with any tools available yet. if you want to build a modern-day-standart-cool website, flash or god-forbid-silverlight are the only options! that’s why microsoft just came out with it too, for the market is enormous.

iy42 (1 week ago)
I’m okay with the loss of flash. Flash can slow down my computer to a halt and I’ve had flash completely crash my web browser, whether I was using Safari, Chrome, Firefox, or IE. Flash is completely unnecessary and takes forever to load. Disabling Flash disables all those annoying ads and Apple could have even used that as a selling point. “On the iPad the internet is ad-free!”

moixmail (1 week ago)
I love that videos! But i’m surprised nobody laughs about the half minute from 2:03 the guy is reading his notes, that’s funny

thehighconcept (1 week ago)
holy balls that is hilarious. I have to take this video down and edit that out. or just redo it with less crappy lighting.

Korebyn (1 week ago)
haha, yeah. I laughed at first, but then I felt bad because i thought you were stroking out.

thehighconcept (1 week ago)
Yeah somebody asked me if I was having a seizure :P

I really was just forcing myself to get something up, even if it wasn’t great, just to get started. I figured if I edited too long I’d never keep going. But I definitely need to redo the first three videos.

Korebyn (1 week ago)
The content redeems the quality.

TheLxxy (1 week ago)
@thehighconcept Good luck. As you continue you’re become more accustomed to the rigors and challenges of speaking real-time to be replayed later. You’re doing well, but I can’t over emphasize practicing and editing.

The other tact I do myself is to split the difference down the middle and leave in some folleys only to splice in a funny bit–most generally the “Toastie!” sound from MKII.

Keep it coming and you’ll find yourself comfortable with time.

moixmail (1 week ago)
yup, just cut this part, or leave it like that, not a big issue. btw u are a fantastic reporter

artisticbrit (2 weeks ago)
I am enjoying your videos, very insightful and well thought out. On a technical level, just go back when you record them and take out the blank spots, i’m sure you may be losing a few people there. But keep em coming!

bcallahan08 (2 weeks ago)
isn’t it ironic that i watched this video on youtube in HTML5 mode? lol great videos btw

fataldesain (2 weeks ago)
do you crapple fanbots have any idea how much flash is on the web. Flash is not going anywhere for a long time.

Android and Chrome OS are going to leave apple behind.

KenichiCam (2 weeks ago)
ClickToFlash … saviour.

Watching this in Flash was using 33% of my processor. The best way to kill Flash is to take bold steps. Everyone hates Flash really … !!

gyrogeerloose (2 weeks ago)
Ironically, I was unable to watch the Flash version of this from your RD blog site because it kept stalling out about halfway through. I had to come directly to YouTube and watch it as a HTML 5 video to see the whole thing! That pretty much confirms your point about the worthlessness of Flash.

DRBUK (2 weeks ago)
i hate flash so much, it makes my cpu go MENTAL, and in a matter of seconds i have a RED HOT ALUMINIUM MACBOOK that is scorching hot ! because apple released a flash update a few weeks ago, its NOT TOO BAD NOW, but man I HATE FLASH, as steve jobs said, its just adobe being lazy ! because why not make a proper version of the mac ! i think they wont bother, because apple wont allow flash on the iphone, so therefore adobe just think meh who cares about apple…

DRBUK (2 weeks ago)
quite a few silent moments in the video, is that how much flash annoys you loll

thehighconcept (2 weeks ago)
Well I’m still getting used to doing video, so it’s 8 minutes of extemporaneous speaking about something I wrote up. I was going to edit it up and add slides and stuff, but if I do that I won’t get one up every day. I’ll have to get better at clipping it together and spicing it up. Baby steps!

DRBUK (2 weeks ago)
great ! i have been using imovie for 3 years, and im rubbish lol i have a feeling once you get it, you will love it ! great job on the videos, im pretty surprised you never made videos ! keep them coming, i hope even when your hand has recovered you will continue making videos ! also how long do you think it will take before we see html5 being implemented more, because im using the html5 youtube and its pretty good !

trainwrecka (2 weeks ago)
@thehighconcept I wasn’t sure what was going on with all the silent parts. That’s the beauty of editing…. but you’re right – it takes a lot of time.

8 Gophero { 02.21.10 at 10:31 am }

You speak of Flash Lite as though it is set in stone and could never be updated to run Actionscript 3. I don’t think it’s a particularly valid argument. (Not that this ruins your whole argument, I just think that this one point is poor).

9 John { 02.22.10 at 2:51 am }

This guy, AtomicSilicon | 2 days ago | permalink, on ArsTechnica’s site makes some good points about the ubiquity of Flash and the commercial realities that follow. However much one argues for HTML5, it’s beginning to look a bit like VHS v Betamax (except in the case of the Touch paradigm):

“The truth is, Flash does a lot. And it has an install base of about 98% of all browsers. The bitter pill started when Flash killed Quicktime as the video plug-in “to have”. Of course, that Quicktime plug-in is old technology and constantly runs crappy on Windows computers. Maybe Apple should drop that? Oh, wait. I see. It is ok for them to put out crappy software for 90% of the personal computers as long it runs fine on their ultra-small Mac market share?”

“And even then, if HTML5 can “kill” Flash, great! When I have a client who needs rich-media or a very custom RIA developed I will turn to the best tools. Today, Flash runs on 98% of the computers. HTML5 is a fraction of that – and ONLY a handful of tags at this point. Not to mention, these tags are not completely consistent across browsers. h.264 isn’t supported in Firefox, the second most popular browser. Nor in the first.”

“And so, if I want to develop for HTML5, I also have to provide my client a backup option to guarantee video playback. Guess I am actually building a Flash backup player. What’s the point? I’ll just build it in Flash to begin with and be done.”

“Wow. When I read a lot of these comments I don’t understand how ignorant people are.”

“I am not a Flash evangelist, but I do run a media company and have to deal with the realities of the available tools in rich-media web delivery. Today I would NEVER pitch a client to build in HTML5. Even if it is just video, why in the world would I tell a client to go with technology that is unsupported by the majority of active browsers? As opposed to Flash that has an install base of over 98%.”

“I heard the same demise of Flash when Silverlight came out. Yet I don’t have clients, other than Microsoft themselves, asking for my team to produce anything in Silverlight. Again, it just has far too small of an install base in comparison to Flash.”

“As for CPU power, crashing, etc… Well, Apple is the pot calling the kettle black here. Quicktime on the PC has got to be the worst steaming pile of crap. Can we abandon that old technology too then? Oh, wait. Is it ok for Apple to ship a piece of software that runs bad on the vast majority of the world’s computers as long as it runs ok on the mac?”

“But then, I propose that Apple’s beef with Flash began when it crushed Quicktime as the plug-in to have with video. Quicktime even has some animation stuff under the hood that almost no one can access due to the lack of development tools. Flash and Quicktime was a battle lost by Apple and Jobs holds a grudge.”

“And we know that it would be a SIMPLE thing to have Flash only activate on click. So it wouldn’t be a resource hog on the iPad, iPhone or iWhatever. The truth is, the option of Flash opens the platform to additional content that can only be purchased through the iTunes store right now. How stupid does Jobs think we are? He wants you to buy videos, not stream them for free.”

“Finally, when the day does come and something else does replace Flash, you’ll all bitch about that as well. First, because ads are not going away, you won’t have your Flash blockers anymore. And rich-media sites will still peg your CPU because the reality of it is that animating vectors aliased around the screen takes CPU power. The more you layer, the more power it needs. The faster computers get, the most artists layer.”

“And there are some that think that rich-media websites have no place on the web. And I submit that the internet is becoming more and more so. Websites are becoming more and more rich media applications. One day it will be hard to tell the difference between an app you run on your computer and a website. The artists that design sites are still under tight restrictions in what we can do, but we can all imagine how cool an online store could be.”

http://www.thefwa.com

“I think the above is a good place to remind the powerful uses of a tool like Flash. When HTML5 can replicate say, the first 20 sites listed on theFWA, then let’s throw Flash out the door and be done with it. But it needs to match the functionality, speed, quality, and compatibility.”

10 twujr { 02.23.10 at 8:21 pm }

Let’s side-step the whole “I hate Flash” discussion and chat about something more concrete: Flash is a mouse-centric environment designed around desktop/laptop screen sizes and proportions.

First, enabling Flash on iPhone OS devices would do nothing to allow the Flash universe as we know it to run on these devices in parity with the desktop experience. The iPhone doesn’t have a mouse nor do I believe the OS has mouse-over capability. How would Flash second-guess between a click and a hover?

Second, most Flash sites that I’ve seen don’t scale very well and are built around desktop/notebook screen resolutions and proportions. I can’t imagine what a Flash site would look like shrunk down to fit on an iPhone.

As things sit today, iPhone devices see the missing plugin. Some people get frustrated with the lack of support. Enabling Flash on multi-touch devices would only exacerbate the frustration. User uproar over incompatible Flash sites would bite Adobe in the ass. Every site built with mouse-based Flash would need to revisit the development cycle and recode or redesign with a mobile interface using touch-aware Flash.

The problem is much deeper than most people care to see.

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