<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Inside Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server: Apple&#8217;s server strategy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/</link>
	<description>Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:23:17 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: pedrocandrade</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21784</link>
		<dc:creator>pedrocandrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21784</guid>
		<description>Interesting article, Daniel. 

Any clues as to where I could find a background on Microsoft&#039;s Server strategy? It would be helpful to compare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, Daniel. </p>
<p>Any clues as to where I could find a background on Microsoft&#8217;s Server strategy? It would be helpful to compare.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MipWrangler</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21663</link>
		<dc:creator>MipWrangler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21663</guid>
		<description>Dan, I think you are on to something here.  Having easy access to install services on a server box could save effort and even be a selling point, especially if those services are easy to administer and customers have access to enterprise class support.

In your article you note that there are some FOSS server &quot;titles&quot; for OS X, but one thing I was surprised you didn&#039;t mention, as it may strengthen your argument, is that many of the FOSS operating systems have exactly what you propose for OS X already.  Debian derivatives have &lt;em&gt;apt&lt;/em&gt;, and &lt;em&gt;PackageKit&lt;/em&gt;.  RedHat derivatives have &lt;em&gt;yum&lt;/em&gt;.  BSD derivatives (and some Linux distros like gentoo) have &lt;em&gt;ports&lt;/em&gt;.  Indeed there is a version of ports for OS X called &lt;em&gt;macports&lt;/em&gt;.  Most of these tools even have one or more GUIs built on top of them.  There is even an GUI for macports called &lt;em&gt;Porticus&lt;/em&gt;.

GUI administration plugins isn&#039;t new to the FOSS world either.  Both gnome and kde have facilities to do this.  Admittedly I&#039;m not sure how often they are used given many who manage FOSS servers are comfortable (in many cases prefer) using the command line to interact with the machines.  

I think you make a good case for what value Apple could bring to the table so no need to repeat.  It will be interesting to see if Apple finds this to be a large enough revenue stream to pay attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I think you are on to something here.  Having easy access to install services on a server box could save effort and even be a selling point, especially if those services are easy to administer and customers have access to enterprise class support.</p>
<p>In your article you note that there are some FOSS server &#8220;titles&#8221; for OS X, but one thing I was surprised you didn&#8217;t mention, as it may strengthen your argument, is that many of the FOSS operating systems have exactly what you propose for OS X already.  Debian derivatives have <em>apt</em>, and <em>PackageKit</em>.  RedHat derivatives have <em>yum</em>.  BSD derivatives (and some Linux distros like gentoo) have <em>ports</em>.  Indeed there is a version of ports for OS X called <em>macports</em>.  Most of these tools even have one or more GUIs built on top of them.  There is even an GUI for macports called <em>Porticus</em>.</p>
<p>GUI administration plugins isn&#8217;t new to the FOSS world either.  Both gnome and kde have facilities to do this.  Admittedly I&#8217;m not sure how often they are used given many who manage FOSS servers are comfortable (in many cases prefer) using the command line to interact with the machines.  </p>
<p>I think you make a good case for what value Apple could bring to the table so no need to repeat.  It will be interesting to see if Apple finds this to be a large enough revenue stream to pay attention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Berend Schotanus</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21654</link>
		<dc:creator>Berend Schotanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21654</guid>
		<description>On second thought I want to revise my opinion that servers don&#039;t matter. An important reason for companies to use servers instead of the cloud could be to protect their mission critical data. An important reason why just personal devices is not enough would be to enable a further level of collaboration.

The reason I was rather negative about servers is that in my own career I have only worked with crappy dull servers that didn&#039;t do what you really wanted and required a work around as soon as possible. Basically I have never seen them doing more than printing, email and filesharing. Of course this is the very same reason why Dan is enthusiast about the cool new 3rd party server apps he is proposing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On second thought I want to revise my opinion that servers don&#8217;t matter. An important reason for companies to use servers instead of the cloud could be to protect their mission critical data. An important reason why just personal devices is not enough would be to enable a further level of collaboration.</p>
<p>The reason I was rather negative about servers is that in my own career I have only worked with crappy dull servers that didn&#8217;t do what you really wanted and required a work around as soon as possible. Basically I have never seen them doing more than printing, email and filesharing. Of course this is the very same reason why Dan is enthusiast about the cool new 3rd party server apps he is proposing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Berend Schotanus</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21646</link>
		<dc:creator>Berend Schotanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21646</guid>
		<description>This is a nicely written article with deep historic knowledge and sympathetic ideas for the future. But I don&#039;t know...

The thing is that servers are such strange beasts somewhere in between visible, material end-user devices and abstract non-material cloud services. They smell like old-fashioned brick and mortar mainframes from a time when buying a computer involved making a building for it as well.
The power of Apple lies in selling those good looking mostly portable end-user devices that connect seamlessly to invisible but still understandable services. In providing those services Apple is pragmatic in deploying both centralized server-like solutions and decentralized peer to peer technologies like Bonjour.
One of the main attractions from Apple to me is that they are able to think in decentralized solutions. I am very happy my iPhone is syncing to my own computer and not to a Danger/Sidekick-like distant server. Apple devices are smart: they can interact with their environment but don&#039;t require any centralized server or service to be up and running. Apple has been able to providing many network services by annihilating the server altogether: you can make a network printer by connecting any printer to an AirPort Express, you can get centralized back-up by buying a Time Capsule. Other traditional server functions have been upscaled to specialized firms like Google and Yahoo due to the possibilities of the internet.

Sure, if you are a cloud company you will need physical servers. But you will probably be able to solve the mysteries of building a computer of raw components as well. You will be likely to use things like Unix / Linux / Asterisk / Apache and what would be the added value of the famous Apple veneer?

Yes, it would be gorgeous to build business solutions upon OS-X because OS-X is such a great system. It is great that there is OS-X Server that is still kept alive anyway. But I find it hard to imagine where the added value would be between decentralized device based solutions on one side and highly specialized distant cloud services on the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a nicely written article with deep historic knowledge and sympathetic ideas for the future. But I don&#8217;t know&#8230;</p>
<p>The thing is that servers are such strange beasts somewhere in between visible, material end-user devices and abstract non-material cloud services. They smell like old-fashioned brick and mortar mainframes from a time when buying a computer involved making a building for it as well.<br />
The power of Apple lies in selling those good looking mostly portable end-user devices that connect seamlessly to invisible but still understandable services. In providing those services Apple is pragmatic in deploying both centralized server-like solutions and decentralized peer to peer technologies like Bonjour.<br />
One of the main attractions from Apple to me is that they are able to think in decentralized solutions. I am very happy my iPhone is syncing to my own computer and not to a Danger/Sidekick-like distant server. Apple devices are smart: they can interact with their environment but don&#8217;t require any centralized server or service to be up and running. Apple has been able to providing many network services by annihilating the server altogether: you can make a network printer by connecting any printer to an AirPort Express, you can get centralized back-up by buying a Time Capsule. Other traditional server functions have been upscaled to specialized firms like Google and Yahoo due to the possibilities of the internet.</p>
<p>Sure, if you are a cloud company you will need physical servers. But you will probably be able to solve the mysteries of building a computer of raw components as well. You will be likely to use things like Unix / Linux / Asterisk / Apache and what would be the added value of the famous Apple veneer?</p>
<p>Yes, it would be gorgeous to build business solutions upon OS-X because OS-X is such a great system. It is great that there is OS-X Server that is still kept alive anyway. But I find it hard to imagine where the added value would be between decentralized device based solutions on one side and highly specialized distant cloud services on the other side.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hakalau Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21636</link>
		<dc:creator>Hakalau Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21636</guid>
		<description>Dan, please fix the link to the &quot;Hardware Costs&quot; Figure. It now links to a blow up of to the next figure.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, please fix the link to the &#8220;Hardware Costs&#8221; Figure. It now links to a blow up of to the next figure.  Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ChuckO</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21605</link>
		<dc:creator>ChuckO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21605</guid>
		<description>Apple advertises Mac OS X Server as “open source made easy.” 

Why is this so or what does this mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple advertises Mac OS X Server as “open source made easy.” </p>
<p>Why is this so or what does this mean?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MarkDemma</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21604</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkDemma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21604</guid>
		<description>There are 2 major obstacles to OS X server being adopted in any significant way into anything other than the smallest of companies.  I&#039;ve experienced these first hand because lord knows I&#039;ve tried before.  The biggest, and this is pretty much a show stopper, is the fact that Apple have no Enterprise support channel whatsoever at this time.  I ran into this head on recently when trying to get a company owned MacBook Pro serviced recently.  I ended up having to go into one of the retail stores and fight the lines there to get it serviced.  There is no process in place to do RMAs or get on site service of parts.  Apple seem to recongnise these deficiencies by offering to sell you spares kits for servers, but this is really only a solution for really small shops.  To really be viable as a server vendor, Apple would first have to either build their own Enterprise support structure, or farm it out.  I would imagine the first option would be quite costly and the latter simply not an option for a company that likes to control every aspect of their operation.
The second major problem with using Apple as a server product is the extremely narrow band of server / storage offerings they make available.  They simply don&#039;t scale.   You&#039;d end up having to go to other vendors for all  your storage beyond the small local drives and for anything requiring more power than you could get out of a 1U box.
So you&#039;d still have to have, for instance, Sun, IBM or HP boxes around for running your Database or, gods forbid, Exchange, etc.  It just makes more sense to buy your 1U generic application / web servers from Sun, IBM, HP, or better yet these days, run a bunch of virtualized servers on a big box.  It doesn&#039;t make any sense to have to train your people to manage OS X server on top of knowing Unix / NT / Linux - which they probably know already.  

Now again, I like Apple products to the point that our VP Ops calls me a &quot;fan boy&quot;  ... but being realistic here... unless Apple were willing to pump enough money into A- building an enterprise support structure (and sales for that matter) and B- expanding the product range then they really won&#039;t be a viable option for anything other than small businesses.  And I think they know this and are fine with it.  Honestly if they were to pump that sort of money into building Enterprise support it would starve other divisions to get into an already crowded marketplace that doesn&#039;t have nearly as much markup as they enjoy with consumer level products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 2 major obstacles to OS X server being adopted in any significant way into anything other than the smallest of companies.  I&#8217;ve experienced these first hand because lord knows I&#8217;ve tried before.  The biggest, and this is pretty much a show stopper, is the fact that Apple have no Enterprise support channel whatsoever at this time.  I ran into this head on recently when trying to get a company owned MacBook Pro serviced recently.  I ended up having to go into one of the retail stores and fight the lines there to get it serviced.  There is no process in place to do RMAs or get on site service of parts.  Apple seem to recongnise these deficiencies by offering to sell you spares kits for servers, but this is really only a solution for really small shops.  To really be viable as a server vendor, Apple would first have to either build their own Enterprise support structure, or farm it out.  I would imagine the first option would be quite costly and the latter simply not an option for a company that likes to control every aspect of their operation.<br />
The second major problem with using Apple as a server product is the extremely narrow band of server / storage offerings they make available.  They simply don&#8217;t scale.   You&#8217;d end up having to go to other vendors for all  your storage beyond the small local drives and for anything requiring more power than you could get out of a 1U box.<br />
So you&#8217;d still have to have, for instance, Sun, IBM or HP boxes around for running your Database or, gods forbid, Exchange, etc.  It just makes more sense to buy your 1U generic application / web servers from Sun, IBM, HP, or better yet these days, run a bunch of virtualized servers on a big box.  It doesn&#8217;t make any sense to have to train your people to manage OS X server on top of knowing Unix / NT / Linux &#8211; which they probably know already.  </p>
<p>Now again, I like Apple products to the point that our VP Ops calls me a &#8220;fan boy&#8221;  &#8230; but being realistic here&#8230; unless Apple were willing to pump enough money into A- building an enterprise support structure (and sales for that matter) and B- expanding the product range then they really won&#8217;t be a viable option for anything other than small businesses.  And I think they know this and are fine with it.  Honestly if they were to pump that sort of money into building Enterprise support it would starve other divisions to get into an already crowded marketplace that doesn&#8217;t have nearly as much markup as they enjoy with consumer level products.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Didier</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21600</link>
		<dc:creator>Didier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21600</guid>
		<description>Nobody seems to know what to do with OSX server in the real world not even Apple is promoting it to the public.

It could be a good platform for small business but how would they be aware of it existence ?

Where do you find training at a reasonable price and more on the user level ?

... 

Still a lot of work to do to make it really useful for Humans (as opposed to computer&#039;s geeks)

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody seems to know what to do with OSX server in the real world not even Apple is promoting it to the public.</p>
<p>It could be a good platform for small business but how would they be aware of it existence ?</p>
<p>Where do you find training at a reasonable price and more on the user level ?</p>
<p>&#8230; </p>
<p>Still a lot of work to do to make it really useful for Humans (as opposed to computer&#8217;s geeks)</p>
<p>;-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roadmap for MAC OS X Server &#171; Chicago Mac/PC Support</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21599</link>
		<dc:creator>Roadmap for MAC OS X Server &#171; Chicago Mac/PC Support</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21599</guid>
		<description>[...] 14, 2009 by chimac    Read the great article  Inside Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server: Apple’s server strategy — RoughlyDrafted Magazine.  Some great [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 14, 2009 by chimac    Read the great article  Inside Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server: Apple’s server strategy — RoughlyDrafted Magazine.  Some great [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: deemery</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/13/inside-mac-os-x-snow-leopard-server-apples-server-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-21591</link>
		<dc:creator>deemery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3868#comment-21591</guid>
		<description>Another possible use for OS X Server is to build a home/small office server.  That&#039;s basically how I use OS X Server in my home office.  The big problem with OS X Server is how hard it is to debug/troubleshoot.  Too often you get messages like &#039;your request cannot be handled at this time&#039;.  Apple has done some amazing things to bring various Unix/Linux based products together, but they&#039;re all put together in one specific way.  So debugging approaches that work on other Unix/Linux systems don&#039;t necessarily align with Apple&#039;s approach.  

Configuring Server is much more difficult than it should be.  I&#039;ve been stymied each time and had to hire a consultant to do it.  Things have to be set up a certain way in a certain order...  Right now I have Leopard Server (for internal use including LDAP/mobile accounts) running on an Intel Mini, and Tiger Server (for external facing websites) running on an old G4/933.  The only problem that machine has is it&#039;s been getting hammered by password guessers..

But starting with version 5.6 or so, Mobile accounts finally started working correctly.  That&#039;s what I have on my laptop.  When it&#039;s connected on the home network, periodically it will connect and back itself up to the server.  For a couple of versions of OS X.5, this stopped working altogether, but a later release fixed whatever was causing my problems.  

I have not tried Snow Leopard server, my experience is with Tiger and Leopard server products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another possible use for OS X Server is to build a home/small office server.  That&#8217;s basically how I use OS X Server in my home office.  The big problem with OS X Server is how hard it is to debug/troubleshoot.  Too often you get messages like &#8216;your request cannot be handled at this time&#8217;.  Apple has done some amazing things to bring various Unix/Linux based products together, but they&#8217;re all put together in one specific way.  So debugging approaches that work on other Unix/Linux systems don&#8217;t necessarily align with Apple&#8217;s approach.  </p>
<p>Configuring Server is much more difficult than it should be.  I&#8217;ve been stymied each time and had to hire a consultant to do it.  Things have to be set up a certain way in a certain order&#8230;  Right now I have Leopard Server (for internal use including LDAP/mobile accounts) running on an Intel Mini, and Tiger Server (for external facing websites) running on an old G4/933.  The only problem that machine has is it&#8217;s been getting hammered by password guessers..</p>
<p>But starting with version 5.6 or so, Mobile accounts finally started working correctly.  That&#8217;s what I have on my laptop.  When it&#8217;s connected on the home network, periodically it will connect and back itself up to the server.  For a couple of versions of OS X.5, this stopped working altogether, but a later release fixed whatever was causing my problems.  </p>
<p>I have not tried Snow Leopard server, my experience is with Tiger and Leopard server products.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
