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	<title>Comments on: Are Macs more Safe than Secure? No</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/</link>
	<description>Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco</description>
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		<title>By: geoffrobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18893</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffrobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18893</guid>
		<description>Water-boarding isn&#039;t being defended. Liberal legal arguments were shown to be so much fluff.

Maybe this is why putting random political comments in a tech article should be kept to a minimum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Water-boarding isn&#8217;t being defended. Liberal legal arguments were shown to be so much fluff.</p>
<p>Maybe this is why putting random political comments in a tech article should be kept to a minimum.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Currie</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18853</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Currie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 07:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18853</guid>
		<description>Off Topic. &lt;--This is how one designates comments that have nothing to do with the subject, which in this case is Macs.

Why is water-boarding being defended here? Why is the linked National Review article being used in defense of water-boarding. This is ridiculous in all respects:

&quot;The CIA interrogators who questioned top al-Qaeda captives like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah intended no more harm to them than Navy instructors intended to their SEAL trainees.&quot;

Right.

Can we please keep inane subjects and comments for elsewhere on the net?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off Topic. &lt;&#8211;This is how one designates comments that have nothing to do with the subject, which in this case is Macs.</p>
<p>Why is water-boarding being defended here? Why is the linked National Review article being used in defense of water-boarding. This is ridiculous in all respects:</p>
<p>&#8220;The CIA interrogators who questioned top al-Qaeda captives like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah intended no more harm to them than Navy instructors intended to their SEAL trainees.&#8221;</p>
<p>Right.</p>
<p>Can we please keep inane subjects and comments for elsewhere on the net?</p>
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		<title>By: geoffrobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18849</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffrobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18849</guid>
		<description>&quot;Could you elaborate, please? Maybe you should get your news from more than one source that seems to have a problem with fact checking.&quot;

I&#039;m glad you are trying to be cute. Now, because you are trying to be snide I&#039;m going to make you look foolish by elaborating:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjZkNGZiODM0YjNmODNkMWFhZDU5Mzk2ZDMwNGRmMDQ=</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Could you elaborate, please? Maybe you should get your news from more than one source that seems to have a problem with fact checking.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you are trying to be cute. Now, because you are trying to be snide I&#8217;m going to make you look foolish by elaborating:</p>
<p><a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjZkNGZiODM0YjNmODNkMWFhZDU5Mzk2ZDMwNGRmMDQ=" rel="nofollow">http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjZkNGZiODM0YjNmODNkMWFhZDU5Mzk2ZDMwNGRmMDQ=</a></p>
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		<title>By: javierbds</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18828</link>
		<dc:creator>javierbds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 22:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18828</guid>
		<description>First message, been reading you for a couple of years: you should collect your essays in a book!

I can&#039;t help but feel that finding that your OS is a pain to secure is like finding your partner is cheating you ... People deny it, devote time to self-healing, they may even tell friends their partners will do the same. Some will say things like &quot;all [gender] are bitches&quot; ...

I had to leave my old OS many years ago when I found it bugged me by requiring constant attention ... Life goes on, and OS X suits my needs (and taste).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First message, been reading you for a couple of years: you should collect your essays in a book!</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help but feel that finding that your OS is a pain to secure is like finding your partner is cheating you &#8230; People deny it, devote time to self-healing, they may even tell friends their partners will do the same. Some will say things like &#8220;all [gender] are bitches&#8221; &#8230;</p>
<p>I had to leave my old OS many years ago when I found it bugged me by requiring constant attention &#8230; Life goes on, and OS X suits my needs (and taste).</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Currie</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18826</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Currie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 08:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18826</guid>
		<description>Part of the general idea of propaganda, of which anti-Mac security FUD is an example, is to repeat one&#039;s double-speak nonsense over and over and over such that, having heard it often enough, people begin to believe it is true. And sadly, we humans are capable of believing just about anything to be true.

The anti-Mac security FUD also bolsters the WinDroids (robotic followers of Big Brother Bill who drink the kool-aid without question) into believing their bad OS decision is a good OS decision, their bad hardware decision is a good OS decision, that a cheap Windows PC is more valuable than a more expensive Mac. Drink up me hearties, yo ho! The poison does its job and the nifty rhetorical lies make it all seem just fine.

Meanwhile in reality: There are no viruses for Mac OS X, no worms, no illegal spyware. There are only the 11 Trojan horses, which by definition require user error in order to infect a Mac. There is also no such thing as &#039;security by obscurity&#039; on the Mac. You don&#039;t compare 11 Trojans to over 200,000 malware for Windows and conclude this is because the Mac is obscure, at over 5% of the market, not unless you are deranged.

And no, I&#039;ve never read or heard Mac users going around saying that Mac OS X is invulnerable, being snotty or arrogant about anything, or picking on Windows PC users unless they&#039;ve been picked on first. It&#039;s amusing how anyone can say anything with whole hearted conviction and yet it is utter rubbish.

If you&#039;d like to keep track of actual, factual, real Mac OS X security, I attempt to do so over at my Mac-Security blog on Blogger:

http://mac-security.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the general idea of propaganda, of which anti-Mac security FUD is an example, is to repeat one&#8217;s double-speak nonsense over and over and over such that, having heard it often enough, people begin to believe it is true. And sadly, we humans are capable of believing just about anything to be true.</p>
<p>The anti-Mac security FUD also bolsters the WinDroids (robotic followers of Big Brother Bill who drink the kool-aid without question) into believing their bad OS decision is a good OS decision, their bad hardware decision is a good OS decision, that a cheap Windows PC is more valuable than a more expensive Mac. Drink up me hearties, yo ho! The poison does its job and the nifty rhetorical lies make it all seem just fine.</p>
<p>Meanwhile in reality: There are no viruses for Mac OS X, no worms, no illegal spyware. There are only the 11 Trojan horses, which by definition require user error in order to infect a Mac. There is also no such thing as &#8217;security by obscurity&#8217; on the Mac. You don&#8217;t compare 11 Trojans to over 200,000 malware for Windows and conclude this is because the Mac is obscure, at over 5% of the market, not unless you are deranged.</p>
<p>And no, I&#8217;ve never read or heard Mac users going around saying that Mac OS X is invulnerable, being snotty or arrogant about anything, or picking on Windows PC users unless they&#8217;ve been picked on first. It&#8217;s amusing how anyone can say anything with whole hearted conviction and yet it is utter rubbish.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like to keep track of actual, factual, real Mac OS X security, I attempt to do so over at my Mac-Security blog on Blogger:</p>
<p><a href="http://mac-security.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://mac-security.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: João Gomes</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18823</link>
		<dc:creator>João Gomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 22:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18823</guid>
		<description>@GwMac: &quot;The other is Vista has new defenses for a broad variety of memory manipulation attacks ranging from memory corruption errors to heap overflows. Named Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR), the goal is to “shuffle” the address space deck so that common footholds are nearly impossible for attackers to find.&quot;

I remember reading an article on AppleInsider about Snow Leopard which focused precisely on the addition of ASLR to OS X:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/16/road_to_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_64_bit_security.html

Also, a quick google search reveals that OS X 10.5 already has some form of protection in that front, too.

http://www.laconicsecurity.com/aslr-leopard-versus-vista.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@GwMac: &#8220;The other is Vista has new defenses for a broad variety of memory manipulation attacks ranging from memory corruption errors to heap overflows. Named Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR), the goal is to “shuffle” the address space deck so that common footholds are nearly impossible for attackers to find.&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember reading an article on AppleInsider about Snow Leopard which focused precisely on the addition of ASLR to OS X:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/16/road_to_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_64_bit_security.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/16/road_to_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_64_bit_security.html</a></p>
<p>Also, a quick google search reveals that OS X 10.5 already has some form of protection in that front, too.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.laconicsecurity.com/aslr-leopard-versus-vista.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.laconicsecurity.com/aslr-leopard-versus-vista.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: enzos</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18813</link>
		<dc:creator>enzos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 23:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18813</guid>
		<description>snookie.. re. Apple bashing, a term from down my way -  

Tall Poppy Syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term used in Australia, New Zealand and Canada to describe what is seen as a populist, levelling social attitude. Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticised as being presumptuous, attention seeking, or without merit. Alternatively, it is seen as a societal phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are criticised or resented because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snookie.. re. Apple bashing, a term from down my way &#8211;  </p>
<p>Tall Poppy Syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term used in Australia, New Zealand and Canada to describe what is seen as a populist, levelling social attitude. Someone is said to be a target of tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social, or political position is criticised as being presumptuous, attention seeking, or without merit. Alternatively, it is seen as a societal phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are criticised or resented because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.</p>
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		<title>By: snookie</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18805</link>
		<dc:creator>snookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 16:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18805</guid>
		<description>I really didn&#039;t get Grubers comment just based on the quoted parts of the article on Daring Fireball and I got it even less after reading the article.  If this guy is a security expert I&#039;m the Queen of England.  His blog posting was sophomoric at best.  He got slammed in the comments by me and others especially for quoting that clown Enderle.  His attempts to defend himself in the comments section made him sound even more desperate, uninformed and anti-apple.  I&#039;ll never understand this insecurity and hatred of Apple.  If you are willing to settle for Microsoft and cheap plasticky garbage computers with the cheapest components out of china this week then be happy with what you have.   Great article as always Dan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really didn&#8217;t get Grubers comment just based on the quoted parts of the article on Daring Fireball and I got it even less after reading the article.  If this guy is a security expert I&#8217;m the Queen of England.  His blog posting was sophomoric at best.  He got slammed in the comments by me and others especially for quoting that clown Enderle.  His attempts to defend himself in the comments section made him sound even more desperate, uninformed and anti-apple.  I&#8217;ll never understand this insecurity and hatred of Apple.  If you are willing to settle for Microsoft and cheap plasticky garbage computers with the cheapest components out of china this week then be happy with what you have.   Great article as always Dan.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Sa</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18798</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Sa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 03:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18798</guid>
		<description>The Bush administration kept Congress within the loop about a whole host of matters.

no on really knows for sure, yet but you &amp; Fox news do!

&quot;Now, when it is politically advantageous, Pelosi &amp; co. claim to be shocked that gambling is going on at Rick’s cafe.&quot;

If they did...how does that take away from the fact that the Bush administration broke the law? People like you seem to deal in trying to blow smoke. &quot;Pelosi &amp; company&quot; did not make policy under the Bush administration.

&quot;It’s sad. Plus, Eric Holder, Obama’s own attorney general, undermined the case that waterboarding is legally torture. Haven’t heard that about Holder? Probably not.&quot;

Could you elaborate, please? Maybe you should get your news from more than one source that seems to have a problem with fact checking.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99404524

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/holder-wont-condone-waterboarding

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;client=safari&amp;rls=en-us&amp;ei=PXAXStyzA5eUMbbtgJ0P&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=spell&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=result&amp;cd=1&amp;q=Holder+undermines+waterboarding&amp;spell=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bush administration kept Congress within the loop about a whole host of matters.</p>
<p>no on really knows for sure, yet but you &amp; Fox news do!</p>
<p>&#8220;Now, when it is politically advantageous, Pelosi &amp; co. claim to be shocked that gambling is going on at Rick’s cafe.&#8221;</p>
<p>If they did&#8230;how does that take away from the fact that the Bush administration broke the law? People like you seem to deal in trying to blow smoke. &#8220;Pelosi &amp; company&#8221; did not make policy under the Bush administration.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s sad. Plus, Eric Holder, Obama’s own attorney general, undermined the case that waterboarding is legally torture. Haven’t heard that about Holder? Probably not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Could you elaborate, please? Maybe you should get your news from more than one source that seems to have a problem with fact checking.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99404524" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99404524</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/story/holder-wont-condone-waterboarding" rel="nofollow">http://www.marketwatch.com/story/holder-wont-condone-waterboarding</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;client=safari&amp;rls=en-us&amp;ei=PXAXStyzA5eUMbbtgJ0P&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=spell&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=result&amp;cd=1&amp;q=Holder+undermines+waterboarding&amp;spell=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;client=safari&amp;rls=en-us&amp;ei=PXAXStyzA5eUMbbtgJ0P&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=spell&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=result&amp;cd=1&amp;q=Holder+undermines+waterboarding&amp;spell=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: geoffrobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/16/are-macs-more-safe-than-secure-no/comment-page-2/#comment-18791</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffrobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 16:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3524#comment-18791</guid>
		<description>The Bush administration kept Congress within the loop about a whole host of matters.

Now, when it is politically advantageous, Pelosi &amp; co. claim to be shocked that gambling is going on at Rick&#039;s cafe.

It&#039;s sad. Plus, Eric Holder, Obama&#039;s own attorney general, undermined the case that waterboarding is legally torture. Haven&#039;t heard that about Holder? Probably not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bush administration kept Congress within the loop about a whole host of matters.</p>
<p>Now, when it is politically advantageous, Pelosi &amp; co. claim to be shocked that gambling is going on at Rick&#8217;s cafe.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad. Plus, Eric Holder, Obama&#8217;s own attorney general, undermined the case that waterboarding is legally torture. Haven&#8217;t heard that about Holder? Probably not.</p>
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