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	<title>Comments on: Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won&#8217;t Save Microsoft</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/</link>
	<description>Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:15:36 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Neil Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-20252</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-20252</guid>
		<description>Snow Leopard looks to be putting another nail in the coffin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snow Leopard looks to be putting another nail in the coffin.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Windows 7 isn&#8217;t competing with Mac OS X Snow Leopard &#8212; RoughlyDrafted Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-20176</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Windows 7 isn&#8217;t competing with Mac OS X Snow Leopard &#8212; RoughlyDrafted Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-20176</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won&#8217;t Save Microsoft Why Microsoft Will Slaughter Its Windows Mobile and PC Partners [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won&#8217;t Save Microsoft Why Microsoft Will Slaughter Its Windows Mobile and PC Partners [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Windows 7 so great Microsoft is giving it away for free &#8212; RoughlyDrafted Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-19253</link>
		<dc:creator>Windows 7 so great Microsoft is giving it away for free &#8212; RoughlyDrafted Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-19253</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won&#8217;t Save Microsoft [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won&#8217;t Save Microsoft [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Microsoft to attack Mac pricing in new series of TV ads &#171; Recent Reads</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-18161</link>
		<dc:creator>Microsoft to attack Mac pricing in new series of TV ads &#171; Recent Reads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-18161</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;believes that a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;believes that a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 - Part 1</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17802</link>
		<dc:creator>Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 - Part 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 04:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17802</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0&#8230" rel="nofollow">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0&#8230</a>; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 2nd, 2009 - Part 2</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17708</link>
		<dc:creator>Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 2nd, 2009 - Part 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17708</guid>
		<description>[...] schestowitz: see the comment by carlo.98 here: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] schestowitz: see the comment by carlo.98 here: <a href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26&#8230" rel="nofollow">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26&#8230</a>; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Limulus</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17707</link>
		<dc:creator>Limulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17707</guid>
		<description>From the article: &quot;the biggest problem with netbooks is that they don’t cost enough to invisibly hide the fees of a Windows PC license. It’s much easier to accommodate a $40 software license into the bill of materials for a $1000 PC than it is into the cost of a $300 netbook designed to sell at razor thin margins. That problem is also becoming an issue for the entire PC market as the average selling prices of PCs decline, with the current PC ASP now down near $500.&quot;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/02/gartner_2009_pc_declines/

&quot;Gartner says that the average netbook cost $450 in the United States in the fourth quarter [of 2008], but that will drop to $399 by the end of [2009].&quot;

If you go to dell.com right now and look at their Mini 9 systems with Ubuntu, they start at $249...  Are we potentially looking at $199 Ubuntu systems by Christmas 2009?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the article: &#8220;the biggest problem with netbooks is that they don’t cost enough to invisibly hide the fees of a Windows PC license. It’s much easier to accommodate a $40 software license into the bill of materials for a $1000 PC than it is into the cost of a $300 netbook designed to sell at razor thin margins. That problem is also becoming an issue for the entire PC market as the average selling prices of PCs decline, with the current PC ASP now down near $500.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/02/gartner_2009_pc_declines/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/02/gartner_2009_pc_declines/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Gartner says that the average netbook cost $450 in the United States in the fourth quarter [of 2008], but that will drop to $399 by the end of [2009].&#8221;</p>
<p>If you go to dell.com right now and look at their Mini 9 systems with Ubuntu, they start at $249&#8230;  Are we potentially looking at $199 Ubuntu systems by Christmas 2009?</p>
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		<title>By: Limulus</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17705</link>
		<dc:creator>Limulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17705</guid>
		<description>stab { 03.02.09 at 5:43 am } wrote:

&quot;How does HP’s new ‘mi’ linux distro fit into the equation? Will we see more of this from the big PC makers and more of them ‘weaning’ themselves off of windows?&quot;

HP&#039;s Linux is just a somewhat modified version of Ubuntu, like Dell&#039;s.  What will probably happen for the present is that each OEM will take a fairly stable distro (usually Ubuntu, but Linpus (Fedora-based) for Acer) and do some customization/branding to make it &#039;theirs&#039; (compare what OEMs do to Windows to a lesser degree).

The OEMs, especially the big ones, are not ready to &#039;wean&#039; themselves off Windows, nor do they even really want to; however, they DO want:

- a bargaining chip in negotiations with MS
- to be able to offer something that isn&#039;t Vista
- to have a &#039;plan B&#039; in case Win7 is another dud or if the economy is still tanking</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stab { 03.02.09 at 5:43 am } wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;How does HP’s new ‘mi’ linux distro fit into the equation? Will we see more of this from the big PC makers and more of them ‘weaning’ themselves off of windows?&#8221;</p>
<p>HP&#8217;s Linux is just a somewhat modified version of Ubuntu, like Dell&#8217;s.  What will probably happen for the present is that each OEM will take a fairly stable distro (usually Ubuntu, but Linpus (Fedora-based) for Acer) and do some customization/branding to make it &#8216;theirs&#8217; (compare what OEMs do to Windows to a lesser degree).</p>
<p>The OEMs, especially the big ones, are not ready to &#8216;wean&#8217; themselves off Windows, nor do they even really want to; however, they DO want:</p>
<p>- a bargaining chip in negotiations with MS<br />
- to be able to offer something that isn&#8217;t Vista<br />
- to have a &#8216;plan B&#8217; in case Win7 is another dud or if the economy is still tanking</p>
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		<title>By: Limulus</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17704</link>
		<dc:creator>Limulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17704</guid>
		<description>phoenix_feet: regarding Frank Fox&#039;s column, I note a few points worth mentioning:

First, he hasn&#039;t kept track of the Win7 versions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#Other_editions
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246562/windows-7-to-come-in-six-flavours.html
(there are altogether too many, and some things have changed from Vista)

Specifically, there can be no &quot;chance to sell upgrades on software, e.g., Starter Edition to Home Basic, Home Basic to Home Premium&quot; except in what Microsoft terms &quot;emerging markets&quot; (the only countries where 7HB will be offered).  But there, Microsoft also has to strongly compete against pirated versions of Windows (see the eweek.com article previously linked above).

Also, as has been noted often, people don&#039;t usually upgrade Windows other than by buying new machines; the vast majority of low-cost Windows 7 netbooks in Europe and North America will be sold with crippleware Starter and then remain there.

Second, if you push Win7 Home Premium on Netbooks, you&#039;re going to need to ramp up the specs in order to get a machine that functions about as well as an XP system would, which will mean that the cost will go up to the point where you might as well get a low-end regular notebook.

Third, AFAIK, the way Dell sells their Ubuntu machines, there is no software support; thus Linux will still be cheaper than Windows.

Now, I suspect that starter will probably be sold to OEMs for not more than XP is going now (let&#039;s say $20, max).  That will make it acceptable for OEMs to use on netbooks in the $300-500 range, while Home Premium will be used on notebooks in the $400+ range.  Linux systems will compete well on netbooks in the sub-$400 range (and would also do well on lower-end notebooks (e.g. sub-$600) if they were widely offered).  Macs will still dominate the high-end ($1000+) range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>phoenix_feet: regarding Frank Fox&#8217;s column, I note a few points worth mentioning:</p>
<p>First, he hasn&#8217;t kept track of the Win7 versions:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#Other_editions" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#Other_editions</a><br />
<a href="http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246562/windows-7-to-come-in-six-flavours.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246562/windows-7-to-come-in-six-flavours.html</a><br />
(there are altogether too many, and some things have changed from Vista)</p>
<p>Specifically, there can be no &#8220;chance to sell upgrades on software, e.g., Starter Edition to Home Basic, Home Basic to Home Premium&#8221; except in what Microsoft terms &#8220;emerging markets&#8221; (the only countries where 7HB will be offered).  But there, Microsoft also has to strongly compete against pirated versions of Windows (see the eweek.com article previously linked above).</p>
<p>Also, as has been noted often, people don&#8217;t usually upgrade Windows other than by buying new machines; the vast majority of low-cost Windows 7 netbooks in Europe and North America will be sold with crippleware Starter and then remain there.</p>
<p>Second, if you push Win7 Home Premium on Netbooks, you&#8217;re going to need to ramp up the specs in order to get a machine that functions about as well as an XP system would, which will mean that the cost will go up to the point where you might as well get a low-end regular notebook.</p>
<p>Third, AFAIK, the way Dell sells their Ubuntu machines, there is no software support; thus Linux will still be cheaper than Windows.</p>
<p>Now, I suspect that starter will probably be sold to OEMs for not more than XP is going now (let&#8217;s say $20, max).  That will make it acceptable for OEMs to use on netbooks in the $300-500 range, while Home Premium will be used on notebooks in the $400+ range.  Linux systems will compete well on netbooks in the sub-$400 range (and would also do well on lower-end notebooks (e.g. sub-$600) if they were widely offered).  Macs will still dominate the high-end ($1000+) range.</p>
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		<title>By: stab</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/why-windows-7-on-netbooks-wont-save-microsoft/comment-page-1/#comment-17693</link>
		<dc:creator>stab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=3240#comment-17693</guid>
		<description>(sorry about that last comment!). How does HP&#039;s new &#039;mi&#039; linux distro fit into the equation? Will we see more of this from the big PC makers and more of them &#039;weaning&#039; themselves off of windows?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sorry about that last comment!). How does HP&#8217;s new &#8216;mi&#8217; linux distro fit into the equation? Will we see more of this from the big PC makers and more of them &#8216;weaning&#8217; themselves off of windows?</p>
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