When was the last time most people sync’d a Firewire iPod…? At top capacity of 20gb its not going to take that long – and back then you were lucky to find a computer with USB2…! I’ve seen several user cases on the Internet that suggest real-world access times aren’t that different. My experience is that takes around the same amount of time, and the main advantage of Firewire on old MacBook is that I can plug three things in at one time without digging out a USB hub.

Oh, and anyone remember the wailing/end-of-Apple that occurred when SCSI was dropped…?

My point of citing the radical iMac change was that the removed an archaic standard in hopes of pushing people towards the abilities of newer technologies. Getting rid of FireWire, however, does no such thing, as it leaves the MacBook with a relatively archaic technology, USB 2.0.

” Problem is that FW400 isn’t dramatically faster than USB 2.0″

Maybe not on paper. In real life, it translates to the vast difference in speed for Time Machine backups with USB & FireWire drives, syncing a FireWire-based iPod as opposed to a newer one, and transferring files to and from a USB & FireWire drive.

” Access to music/DV applications where USB isn’t as suitable. High performance audio interfaces and most existing DV gear is FireWire. But the MB is a consumer device. Consumer audio interfaces and cameras are USB.”

Consumer cameras are USB? Yes, if you’re talking about Powershots and Cybershots and the like. But if you are referring to camcorders, they use FireWire. Period. If you are well off enough to afford a flash-based Canon or HDD Panasonic, or are okay with wasting your money on a DVD-based camcorder, then you’d be using USB. But the predominant connection for ALL camcorders under a $4000 price point still happens to be FireWire.

“The list of pros for FireWire are not compelling enough for Apple to have added FW to the MB.”

I know what you mean by “added”, but it wasn’t added. It was removed. Hence the widespread “niche” outrage.

“Yes many Mac users will miss it. Pros who want a smaller than 15″ laptop will really miss it. I like FW. Bu it is not the end of the world and the reasons to have it are not outweighed by the cost savings that allow Apple to hit a lower price target for the new MB with more Pro features than ever.”

I’m no expert on the costs of FireWire busses, but I don’t know that the cost of a key technology (and feature) outweighs the so-called lower price target. $1299 is pushing the price limits of being a consumer laptop, if not already well beyond it.

All that being said, Dan, I thoroughly enjoy your articles and your opinions, even when I don’t always agree.

Obviously, all good things must end but I worry about how many Apple fans this’ll alienate as they become more similar to Microsoft of the mid-90’s in not catering very well to their longest standing group of consumers. That $1000 might end up now in HP or Dell’s pockets instead and a tech company lives or dies by the techie quotient of their prospective audience and userbase.

If you want FW now either buy the older technology white Macbook or spend $1000.00 more for the 15″ MBP (or a Vista laptop for even less money). If FW is on the way out why is it on the new MBP? Why does the current Imac have both FW400 & FW800 ports?

I can say with 100% certainty that I was ready to buy a new Macbook to replace my older Macbook this week. Lack of FW has prevented that sale.

[Calls to mind: "nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Nobody expected the iMac either.

As for camcorders, consumer models have already shifted toward using USB. Yes, this is less than ideal. FW is better technology. But at some point, Apple weighed the cost and engineering constraints and decided the few people who would be upset would be far outweighed by the many who would buy a cheaper MacBook. Given the choice of two USB ports and 1 FW and 1 USB, most consumers would pick the 2 USB ports. I'd rather have one of each, but there are thousands of consumers for every FireWire enthusiast. ]

Hi John. I’m not really suggesting conspiracy, just protectionism. Apple is not alone in this regard. Most computer related companies are moving in this same direction. Any company or person in a position of power will always seek to protect their interests. It’s basic human nature.

Dropping a feature like this is something I know would have caused great debate in the Apple board room. I know from experience that these companies usually base their product decisions on multiple reasons, not just one. I had the privilege of getting an inside view of the costs related to a security system manufacturer whose *custom* (US made) logic boards cost all of $6 to manufacture but retailed for $180 by the time warranties, packaging, shipping, wholesaling, and retailing charges were added up. Firewire components are so ubiquitous and cheap (China) that the inclusion of them to the new Macs simply could not have a major impact on their retail price. To that effect, I know the amount it would cost Apple to include FW amounts to pennies per device, and to the typical Apple consumer an added buck would not make a whit of difference.

Apple has a couple other really good reasons to drop Firewire though:
1. Target mode is a potential security risk where any person can simply shut down another person’s Mac, copy the hard drive in a few minutes, leave without leaving any evidence, then break the encryption at their leisure . Apple doesn’t want this to become a black eye on their reputation. Removing a hard drive takes considerably longer , takes much more technical know-how, and generally most will simply steal the computer rather than go to that length in a public place.
2. Stopping quick transfer of their iTunes media content from one Mac to another among the target age group.
3. Standard corporate procedure called “Product line differentiation”. Withholding features from the basic products, then charging much higher prices for adding those same features to a premiere line. It’s the same thing they did with iMovie 08, then pushing the $79 Final Cut Express to those who wanted features that previously were available in iMovie 06.

What Steve said is true. FW is indeed disappearing, but I know cost is not the factor, and I know it would not significantly affect the size or weight of the laptop. I believe they had other more compelling reasons they simply would never utter publicly, hence the disappearance of Target Mode altogether on the new MacBooks. I fully expect Firewire to disappear across all their products over the next five years or so.

I am curious about this new custom build of Leopard on the new MacBooks. Can’t wait until a few of them reach the hands of some investigative technicians. Wonder what they’ll find?

The educational market, involving both institutions and students, is where Macs have the largest relative marketshare. Students & faculty traditionally run to the Mac because of its supposed superiority for creative uses. That includes something as simple as a FireWire port for work that they do with any video or audio, as well as much faster real-world hard drive performance.

FireWire is nothing like floppy disks, as floppy disks were replaced by various technologies (ethernet/CDs) that were superior. What is FireWire being replaced by? All I see are [only] 2 USB ports, that are worse in EVERY way than even FireWire 400. There is no improvement to be had with its lack. None whatsoever.

And Jon T, please don’t pull ridiculously asinine statements out of your hindquarters, like “99% of MacBook users would be quite clueless about it”. Maybe your grandmother, or anyone from generations who didn’t grow up on computers would not know what FireWire was, but large portions of the people that actually use MacBooks [high school and college students] have no problems hooking their hard drives and camcorders and Mackie Satellites to that unknown port.

[I think everyone realizes that FireWire has many advantages, but everything has pros and cons. The point is, does the lack of FW on the MacBook dramatically change its value more than its cost?

The list of pros for FireWire are not compelling enough for Apple to have added FW to the MB. Yes many Mac users will miss it. Pros who want a smaller than 15" laptop will really miss it. I like FW. Bu it is not the end of the world and the reasons to have it are not outweighed by the cost savings that allow Apple to hit a lower price target for the new MB with more Pro features than ever. ]

Anger at the moment in all honesty. It makes me re-evaluate the situation. I’m hesitant to invest money now and feel cheated by what has happened. It will stop me from being able to slave my laptop which I do like to do if doing extended work from home etc. Its nice to have a big screen and I do not see why I should have to replace my ACD to do so. The move forward in connections to DisplayPort is good but now no T Mode we are going back not forward

This reminds me of the iSight issue where Apple stopped supplying them for the reason we all know. Then just left the market without a replacement.

I agree with you on the 15″ being to big and heavy etc, it certainly is for what I want/need. When the Air came out I would of snapped one up if it had Firewire, as it didn’t I accepted and waited for the MacBook. It is really annoying as I would really love a new MacBook but will not part with that amount of money for a machine with no wire of fire. Please Apple 13″ MacBook Pro…. or just do the right thing and put the port back on.

My own 12″ PowerBook finally conked out and I waited for the new MacBooks to be announced. I’m an IT consultant and make heavy use of Firewire still: mostly for fast external storage and Firewire Target Disk Mode. With the writing so clearly on the wall for the future of Firewire, I am going to make more of a concerted effort to migrate away from Firewire 400, but buying a laptop without Firewire 400 would be too painful at the moment. (And I need a smaller, lighter laptop and don’t need top-of-the-line processing power, so a 15″ MacBook Pro is total overkill for my purposes.)

Instead of spending $1,599 on a new high-end MacBook, I ended up spending $1,099 in a refurbed 2.4GHz BlackBook. That’s $500 of my money that I get to keep and Apple didn’t get this time, but I don’t feel particularly great about it as the old MacBooks are bigger and heavier than my 12″ PowerBook.

@Nick: if the iMac and Mac Pro you were going to buy still suit your purposes, why cut off your nose to spite you face and not buy them?

Almost sounds like the Mac PC struggle…