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	<title>Comments on: Review: Netflix Player vs Apple TV</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/</link>
	<description>Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco</description>
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		<title>By: John E</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-9037</link>
		<dc:creator>John E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-9037</guid>
		<description>... and to further thicken the plot, i stumbled across this very timely news report from yesterday:

http://www.videsignline.com/news/208402347

obviously we are entering a &quot;battle of the boxes&quot; era. everyone&#039;s got the same idea - sell consumers a pretty cheap piece of hardware that practically ties them to your movie/media service for sales, rentals, and extras and keeps them away from your competitors&#039; services. copying the iPod/iTunes model.

i don&#039;t think single function boxes like Netflix/Roku and Vudu will survive this battle - unless they are &quot;free&quot; like cheap cell phones with a multi-year service contract. Netflix could do that. and also offering unique content that you can&#039;t otherwise find for free on the exploding number of ad-supported media web portals.

but the boxes that include another function you really want and must have a piece of hardware for could make it. this would include: (a) games (XBox, PS3, Wii); (b) DVR (TiVo, CATV boxes); (c) HD DVD (PS3); (d) computer &quot;media extenders&quot; (AppleTV, XBox, PS3, TiVo); and maybe HDTV&#039;s (HP&#039;s and Sony&#039;s upcoming internet-enabled models). you get two or three birds with one stone, one purchase.

this is where AppleTV is still weak. i think it needs at least one more function besides media extender, take your pick, to compete successfully. dan&#039;s suggestions to weld it together with the iPhone/Touch, and adding Safari to access all those media web portals might work. then you could also buy special applications for it - like games - from the iTunes AppStore too, opening even more possibilities. and/or it could be melded with a revamped .Mac service, which dan didn&#039;t mention.

that why we are all interested what Steve J. will unveil monday. but i can&#039;t really believe he will do anything that bold, alas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; and to further thicken the plot, i stumbled across this very timely news report from yesterday:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.videsignline.com/news/208402347" rel="nofollow">http://www.videsignline.com/news/208402347</a></p>
<p>obviously we are entering a &#8220;battle of the boxes&#8221; era. everyone&#8217;s got the same idea &#8211; sell consumers a pretty cheap piece of hardware that practically ties them to your movie/media service for sales, rentals, and extras and keeps them away from your competitors&#8217; services. copying the iPod/iTunes model.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t think single function boxes like Netflix/Roku and Vudu will survive this battle &#8211; unless they are &#8220;free&#8221; like cheap cell phones with a multi-year service contract. Netflix could do that. and also offering unique content that you can&#8217;t otherwise find for free on the exploding number of ad-supported media web portals.</p>
<p>but the boxes that include another function you really want and must have a piece of hardware for could make it. this would include: (a) games (XBox, PS3, Wii); (b) DVR (TiVo, CATV boxes); (c) HD DVD (PS3); (d) computer &#8220;media extenders&#8221; (AppleTV, XBox, PS3, TiVo); and maybe HDTV&#8217;s (HP&#8217;s and Sony&#8217;s upcoming internet-enabled models). you get two or three birds with one stone, one purchase.</p>
<p>this is where AppleTV is still weak. i think it needs at least one more function besides media extender, take your pick, to compete successfully. dan&#8217;s suggestions to weld it together with the iPhone/Touch, and adding Safari to access all those media web portals might work. then you could also buy special applications for it &#8211; like games &#8211; from the iTunes AppStore too, opening even more possibilities. and/or it could be melded with a revamped .Mac service, which dan didn&#8217;t mention.</p>
<p>that why we are all interested what Steve J. will unveil monday. but i can&#8217;t really believe he will do anything that bold, alas.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-9030</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-9030</guid>
		<description>ah the old prince mclean trick...

as to the unbox thing. it too met my criterion of being cheap ( i already have a tivo) but the web interface was awful and the selection pitiful when i tried it about 6 months ago. picture quality was nice though.and i didn&#039;t like the auto exploding media situation. if i pay to rent something i don&#039;t want it erasing itself when i don&#039;t finish it quickly enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah the old prince mclean trick&#8230;</p>
<p>as to the unbox thing. it too met my criterion of being cheap ( i already have a tivo) but the web interface was awful and the selection pitiful when i tried it about 6 months ago. picture quality was nice though.and i didn&#8217;t like the auto exploding media situation. if i pay to rent something i don&#8217;t want it erasing itself when i don&#8217;t finish it quickly enough.</p>
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		<title>By: John E</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-9018</link>
		<dc:creator>John E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-9018</guid>
		<description>ah, josh, &quot;prince&quot; is dan&#039;s AI pen name. why he bothers with it, i dunno. maybe just for fun.

well, we&#039;ll see how many Roku&#039;s actually get purchased. it&#039;s fair to expect Netflix to upgrade the service later this year, and a second generation Roku box next year. this might be more of an initial &#039;beta&#039; unit, like the 2006 AppleTV was, so Netflix can get its foot in the door with something now, before it is too late. It&#039;s up against not just AppleTV, but the already established XBox, Vudu, and TiVo/Unbox services too, with Sony, Nintendo, and others soon to follow.

Netflix has also indicated a willingness to license its service to other hardware systems, and in particular has cozied up to Microsoft and Silverlight. well, there&#039;s always Blockbuster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, josh, &#8220;prince&#8221; is dan&#8217;s AI pen name. why he bothers with it, i dunno. maybe just for fun.</p>
<p>well, we&#8217;ll see how many Roku&#8217;s actually get purchased. it&#8217;s fair to expect Netflix to upgrade the service later this year, and a second generation Roku box next year. this might be more of an initial &#8216;beta&#8217; unit, like the 2006 AppleTV was, so Netflix can get its foot in the door with something now, before it is too late. It&#8217;s up against not just AppleTV, but the already established XBox, Vudu, and TiVo/Unbox services too, with Sony, Nintendo, and others soon to follow.</p>
<p>Netflix has also indicated a willingness to license its service to other hardware systems, and in particular has cozied up to Microsoft and Silverlight. well, there&#8217;s always Blockbuster.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-8958</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-8958</guid>
		<description>john e, dan didn&#039;t write this review. check the byline. 

ok. i&#039;ll give the contrarian opinion here. i think it&#039;s cool and i&#039;m going to get one.

1) i already have netflix so there&#039;s no additional cost.
2) i don&#039;t mind that it has a minimal gui and depends on t the netflix website. it&#039;s a great website and very easy to navigate.
3) sd is good enough for me. i only have a 27&quot; screen and it has to look better than many of my cable channels.
4) it&#039;s small
5) it&#039;s made by roku and they have a good reputation for quality and the reviews seem to all admit that it functions as advertised
6) i can easily program my unified remote to do all the limited netflix functions
7) i mostly subscribe to netflix for the foreign and obscure movies that aren&#039;t available otherwise. i checked &quot;watch instantly&quot; listings and there is definitely some ok stuff. the offerings are bound to increase over time.
8) did i mention that it&#039;s cheap? $100 and no service fees. come on... this is an impulse purchase for many people.

a couple of other things:

no hard drive means smaller size, less electricity and less noise. it also means that the content owners aren&#039;going to be stressing about users hacking the encryption on the stored files which should give netflix an advantage when negotiating for usage. also, if you can&#039;t depend on your broadband connection to consistantly deliver enough bandwidth for stutter free streaming then you really should complain to your service provider or fix your home network. i don&#039;t see that as a design flaw of this box.

i hate the windows media drm crap as much as anyone but this thing isn&#039;t a computer so as long as i can watch my show i don&#039;t really care. it&#039;s pointless anyhow because if i want to record the programs all i really have to do is send the roku&#039;s output to a dvd recorder and it will probably capture fine. i doubt i&#039;ll bother though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john e, dan didn&#8217;t write this review. check the byline. </p>
<p>ok. i&#8217;ll give the contrarian opinion here. i think it&#8217;s cool and i&#8217;m going to get one.</p>
<p>1) i already have netflix so there&#8217;s no additional cost.<br />
2) i don&#8217;t mind that it has a minimal gui and depends on t the netflix website. it&#8217;s a great website and very easy to navigate.<br />
3) sd is good enough for me. i only have a 27&#8243; screen and it has to look better than many of my cable channels.<br />
4) it&#8217;s small<br />
5) it&#8217;s made by roku and they have a good reputation for quality and the reviews seem to all admit that it functions as advertised<br />
6) i can easily program my unified remote to do all the limited netflix functions<br />
7) i mostly subscribe to netflix for the foreign and obscure movies that aren&#8217;t available otherwise. i checked &#8220;watch instantly&#8221; listings and there is definitely some ok stuff. the offerings are bound to increase over time.<br />
8) did i mention that it&#8217;s cheap? $100 and no service fees. come on&#8230; this is an impulse purchase for many people.</p>
<p>a couple of other things:</p>
<p>no hard drive means smaller size, less electricity and less noise. it also means that the content owners aren&#8217;going to be stressing about users hacking the encryption on the stored files which should give netflix an advantage when negotiating for usage. also, if you can&#8217;t depend on your broadband connection to consistantly deliver enough bandwidth for stutter free streaming then you really should complain to your service provider or fix your home network. i don&#8217;t see that as a design flaw of this box.</p>
<p>i hate the windows media drm crap as much as anyone but this thing isn&#8217;t a computer so as long as i can watch my show i don&#8217;t really care. it&#8217;s pointless anyhow because if i want to record the programs all i really have to do is send the roku&#8217;s output to a dvd recorder and it will probably capture fine. i doubt i&#8217;ll bother though.</p>
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		<title>By: John E</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-8957</link>
		<dc:creator>John E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-8957</guid>
		<description>thanks mikieV. i think Hulu at the moment is just the best-done version of the &quot;professional&quot; &#039;free&#039; video-on-demand websites, along with various others put up by all the networks, major cable channels, local TV stations, and portals like Yahoo. those followed in the footsteps of the &quot;amateur&quot; websites - YouTube et al. - that first pioneered the concept featuring user-uploaded content.

what they all have in common is their business model - they are all supported by advertising somehow, just like radio and broadcast TV have been for the last 80 years. and just like Google is now.

you know, i think probably this old way - ads - will prove to still be the best way and ultimately take over the industry. there always will be a niche for focused subscription and pay-per-view products, like first run movies. but hey, generally i prefer &quot;free&quot; (we all grow up being inured to the commercials), and so does 90+% of everyone else.

if that proves true, AppleTV will have to adapt or be pigeonholed as a niche product. and all it needs to adapt is a browser, which Dan recommended in the last article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks mikieV. i think Hulu at the moment is just the best-done version of the &#8220;professional&#8221; &#8216;free&#8217; video-on-demand websites, along with various others put up by all the networks, major cable channels, local TV stations, and portals like Yahoo. those followed in the footsteps of the &#8220;amateur&#8221; websites &#8211; YouTube et al. &#8211; that first pioneered the concept featuring user-uploaded content.</p>
<p>what they all have in common is their business model &#8211; they are all supported by advertising somehow, just like radio and broadcast TV have been for the last 80 years. and just like Google is now.</p>
<p>you know, i think probably this old way &#8211; ads &#8211; will prove to still be the best way and ultimately take over the industry. there always will be a niche for focused subscription and pay-per-view products, like first run movies. but hey, generally i prefer &#8220;free&#8221; (we all grow up being inured to the commercials), and so does 90+% of everyone else.</p>
<p>if that proves true, AppleTV will have to adapt or be pigeonholed as a niche product. and all it needs to adapt is a browser, which Dan recommended in the last article.</p>
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		<title>By: MikieV</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-8952</link>
		<dc:creator>MikieV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-8952</guid>
		<description>I agree with John E&#039;s assessment that streaming-only is a fatal flaw for the Roku.

Especially with news stories of Time Warner testing paying per-GB of downloads, and Comcast having a &quot;blascklist&quot; of customers who are bandwidth hogs.

Anyone who thinks they would be getting lots of &quot;free&quot; content just by having one of these boxes and a netflix account will be iin for a rude awakening.

I&#039;m also surprised by some of the comments on AI, regarding wanting Apple to make deals which would allow Hulu&#039;s content-streams to play over AppleTV... as if NBC didn&#039;t expressly intend for Hulu to weaken Apple&#039;s influence over pricing for video downloads &amp; rentals. 

Why would Apple want to assist a competitor&#039;s product in gaining market-share?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with John E&#8217;s assessment that streaming-only is a fatal flaw for the Roku.</p>
<p>Especially with news stories of Time Warner testing paying per-GB of downloads, and Comcast having a &#8220;blascklist&#8221; of customers who are bandwidth hogs.</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks they would be getting lots of &#8220;free&#8221; content just by having one of these boxes and a netflix account will be iin for a rude awakening.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also surprised by some of the comments on AI, regarding wanting Apple to make deals which would allow Hulu&#8217;s content-streams to play over AppleTV&#8230; as if NBC didn&#8217;t expressly intend for Hulu to weaken Apple&#8217;s influence over pricing for video downloads &amp; rentals. </p>
<p>Why would Apple want to assist a competitor&#8217;s product in gaining market-share?</p>
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		<title>By: John E</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/05/review-netflix-player-vs-apple-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-8949</link>
		<dc:creator>John E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roughlydrafted.com/?p=1854#comment-8949</guid>
		<description>excellent analysis.

Dan is being reserved this time. i can&#039;t see a single reason anyone would buy one of these. and i&#039;m a regular Netflix  user.

the fatal flaw of the Roku unit is the lack of any hard drive, even a small one just big enough to preload a single movie, so that PQ would not have to be limited by the consumer&#039;s internet connection speed (most have a medium service at best). that just ruins it.

and the movie studios will never allow Netflix to offer  recent popular movies and TV shows without an additional per-showing rental charge, just like AppleTV and all the rest must do now. so the &#039;free&#039; (no extra charge) Netflix offerings will always be limited, just like the &#039;free&#039; On-Demand stuff cable TV providers offer is too.

This is certainly no &#039;AppleTV killer&#039; as suggested by various technology blog idiots in advance of its actual release.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent analysis.</p>
<p>Dan is being reserved this time. i can&#8217;t see a single reason anyone would buy one of these. and i&#8217;m a regular Netflix  user.</p>
<p>the fatal flaw of the Roku unit is the lack of any hard drive, even a small one just big enough to preload a single movie, so that PQ would not have to be limited by the consumer&#8217;s internet connection speed (most have a medium service at best). that just ruins it.</p>
<p>and the movie studios will never allow Netflix to offer  recent popular movies and TV shows without an additional per-showing rental charge, just like AppleTV and all the rest must do now. so the &#8216;free&#8217; (no extra charge) Netflix offerings will always be limited, just like the &#8216;free&#8217; On-Demand stuff cable TV providers offer is too.</p>
<p>This is certainly no &#8216;AppleTV killer&#8217; as suggested by various technology blog idiots in advance of its actual release.</p>
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