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	<title>Comments on: Zune Sales Still In the Toilet</title>
	<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/</link>
	<description>Daniel Eran Dilger in San Francisco</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 12:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Davidlow</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8367</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 19:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8367</guid>
		<description>Microsoft tends to count anything in the pipeline as a sale, so when you (Daniel) say the Zune has sold “just north of two million” between its debut in November 2006 and May 2008, is that Microsoft talking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Microsoft tends to count anything in the pipeline as a sale, so when you (Daniel) say the Zune has sold “just north of two million” between its debut in November 2006 and May 2008, is that Microsoft talking?</p>
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		<title>By: sandeisacher &#187; Il meglio della settimana!</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8274</link>
		<dc:creator>sandeisacher &#187; Il meglio della settimana!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8274</guid>
		<description>[...] multe e ricorsi, successi commerciali come lo Zune che ha venduto ben 2 milioni di player (contro i 76 milioni di [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] multe e ricorsi, successi commerciali come lo Zune che ha venduto ben 2 milioni di player (contro i 76 milioni di [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8229</link>
		<dc:creator>russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 15:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8229</guid>
		<description>"The next article will examine Why Microsoft Can’t Sell to Consumers."

That sounds like hyperbole.  I don't think consumers trust Microsoft any more -- and, of course, they're right not to.  However, it's not just business that's using MS's stuff.  There are a heck of a lot of non-business buyers picking up machines with Windows (and perhaps Office) on even if those same individuals are not buying Zunes (or smart(ish)phones, etc.).

Or maybe that sentence was meant literally. Perhaps RD is saying that MS doesn't sell *direct* to consumers but sells to the OEMs, and tries to ensure that consumers don't come into contact with other options.

Microsoft's strategy in Australia is interesting.  It knows it's threatened by UMPCs.  Those are a threat for two reasons:

(1) Linux is lighter and more agile (XP runs slower and Vista's not going to be practicable at all);
(2) At that price point, a hefty price on system software is too disproportionate to be realistic.

What they've done is strike a deal with Asus.  The cheaper model runs XP.  A second, more expensive, model with a larger drive runs Xandros Linux.  Only the cheaper model will be available at retailers.  Presumably, MS gave Asus a pretty good discount -- good enough for Asus to agree to that second restriction -- but, of course, MS are not so desperate as to want to walk away without as healthy a profit, as is possible.  The difference in price between those two models isn't negligible -- flash-based storage isn't exactly cheap yet, and the dearer model has 8GB more.  That difference presumably correlates with what MS is pocketing over and above what Asus is paying Xandros to provide and maintain its Linux distro for Asus's customers.

Interesting.  This time MS have won -- sort of.  But they've been backed into a corner.

This is what they do, isn't it?  Their customers aren't end-users.  Even in the consumer market where they're competing for consumers' cash, they don't really have a relationship with them.  They have these relationships with with OEMs, with retailers, with content providers.  This story is fascinating in this regard:

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Will-Zunes-Zap-Unauthorized-Content-62928.html

Here you see MS apparently telling one story to NBC and another to end-users (after an NBC exec. made his "impressions" of MS's intentions from discussions public) It's not clear whom MS is intending to doublecross: NBC or Zune owners.  But it's probably not as planned as that: more likely it just tells everyone what they want to hear.

The result of deals like this is the public doesn't trust Microsoft.  The other thing is one has to wonder if MS even thinks very much about what "the consumer" wants.  In their mind he's to be directed, duped, channelled, manipulated, the passive recipient of other people's "done deals", not appealed to with amazing products. Apple's not like that. Jobs spends an enormous amount of effort developing products that he knows people are going to lust after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The next article will examine Why Microsoft Can’t Sell to Consumers.&#8221;</p>
<p>That sounds like hyperbole.  I don&#8217;t think consumers trust Microsoft any more &#8212; and, of course, they&#8217;re right not to.  However, it&#8217;s not just business that&#8217;s using MS&#8217;s stuff.  There are a heck of a lot of non-business buyers picking up machines with Windows (and perhaps Office) on even if those same individuals are not buying Zunes (or smart(ish)phones, etc.).</p>
<p>Or maybe that sentence was meant literally. Perhaps RD is saying that MS doesn&#8217;t sell *direct* to consumers but sells to the OEMs, and tries to ensure that consumers don&#8217;t come into contact with other options.</p>
<p>Microsoft&#8217;s strategy in Australia is interesting.  It knows it&#8217;s threatened by UMPCs.  Those are a threat for two reasons:</p>
<p>(1) Linux is lighter and more agile (XP runs slower and Vista&#8217;s not going to be practicable at all);<br />
(2) At that price point, a hefty price on system software is too disproportionate to be realistic.</p>
<p>What they&#8217;ve done is strike a deal with Asus.  The cheaper model runs XP.  A second, more expensive, model with a larger drive runs Xandros Linux.  Only the cheaper model will be available at retailers.  Presumably, MS gave Asus a pretty good discount &#8212; good enough for Asus to agree to that second restriction &#8212; but, of course, MS are not so desperate as to want to walk away without as healthy a profit, as is possible.  The difference in price between those two models isn&#8217;t negligible &#8212; flash-based storage isn&#8217;t exactly cheap yet, and the dearer model has 8GB more.  That difference presumably correlates with what MS is pocketing over and above what Asus is paying Xandros to provide and maintain its Linux distro for Asus&#8217;s customers.</p>
<p>Interesting.  This time MS have won &#8212; sort of.  But they&#8217;ve been backed into a corner.</p>
<p>This is what they do, isn&#8217;t it?  Their customers aren&#8217;t end-users.  Even in the consumer market where they&#8217;re competing for consumers&#8217; cash, they don&#8217;t really have a relationship with them.  They have these relationships with with OEMs, with retailers, with content providers.  This story is fascinating in this regard:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Will-Zunes-Zap-Unauthorized-Content-62928.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Will-Zunes-Zap-Unauthorized-Content-62928.html</a></p>
<p>Here you see MS apparently telling one story to NBC and another to end-users (after an NBC exec. made his &#8220;impressions&#8221; of MS&#8217;s intentions from discussions public) It&#8217;s not clear whom MS is intending to doublecross: NBC or Zune owners.  But it&#8217;s probably not as planned as that: more likely it just tells everyone what they want to hear.</p>
<p>The result of deals like this is the public doesn&#8217;t trust Microsoft.  The other thing is one has to wonder if MS even thinks very much about what &#8220;the consumer&#8221; wants.  In their mind he&#8217;s to be directed, duped, channelled, manipulated, the passive recipient of other people&#8217;s &#8220;done deals&#8221;, not appealed to with amazing products. Apple&#8217;s not like that. Jobs spends an enormous amount of effort developing products that he knows people are going to lust after.</p>
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		<title>By: bszlachta</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8220</link>
		<dc:creator>bszlachta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 06:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8220</guid>
		<description>"I honestly doubt that there are more than 200,000 zunes in actual use by consumers out there..."

Well, let's see... Take the number of MS employees, total up their moms, spouses, and kids... I think that just might make 200,000!

Oh, those don't count either? Never mind.

Anyway, last time I wrote about Zune sales rankings was over a year ago: http://www.microsplot.com/expedition

It's interesting to see the updates on sales (such as they are) in comments here. I really wonder what the internal mood is within MS: "Keep fighting, we'll get there!" or "Aye yi yi, how do we close down this mess?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I honestly doubt that there are more than 200,000 zunes in actual use by consumers out there&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, let&#8217;s see&#8230; Take the number of MS employees, total up their moms, spouses, and kids&#8230; I think that just might make 200,000!</p>
<p>Oh, those don&#8217;t count either? Never mind.</p>
<p>Anyway, last time I wrote about Zune sales rankings was over a year ago: <a href="http://www.microsplot.com/expedition" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsplot.com/expedition</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to see the updates on sales (such as they are) in comments here. I really wonder what the internal mood is within MS: &#8220;Keep fighting, we&#8217;ll get there!&#8221; or &#8220;Aye yi yi, how do we close down this mess?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ewelch</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8209</link>
		<dc:creator>ewelch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 23:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8209</guid>
		<description>I really don't get this obsession with FM reception people want in iPods. One of the absolute best things about iPods is that you don't have one song and six ads and then another song, and then six more ads. I couldn't care less about someone else doing the programming for me. I'll pick the songs, than you very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t get this obsession with FM reception people want in iPods. One of the absolute best things about iPods is that you don&#8217;t have one song and six ads and then another song, and then six more ads. I couldn&#8217;t care less about someone else doing the programming for me. I&#8217;ll pick the songs, than you very much.</p>
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		<title>By: gus2000</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8207</link>
		<dc:creator>gus2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 23:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8207</guid>
		<description>You know, I'm still waiting to see a Zune in the wild.  I hit the gym every morning and see plenty of iPods, a couple of iPhones, and an occasional Sansa/misc.  The Zune, however, continues to be a big goose-egg.

I'm actually a bit surprised by that, since there are TVs all over the place that use FM transmitters for the audio so that you can tune into the specific screen that you're watching.  The Zune built-in FM receiver would be handy for that, which the iPod lacks (although can be achived with Apple's special headphones).

Hey, maybe that's what PA Semi was bought for: integration.  Apple could easily add an FM receiver to the iPod with probably just one chip, but that's still increased component cost and manufacturing complexity.  But if they're making their own custom chips, then why not throw in additional features?  The only cost is in the additional engineering effort.

I usually agree with Jobs' "less is more" philosophy, but there have been occasions when I wished I could pull in some radio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I&#8217;m still waiting to see a Zune in the wild.  I hit the gym every morning and see plenty of iPods, a couple of iPhones, and an occasional Sansa/misc.  The Zune, however, continues to be a big goose-egg.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually a bit surprised by that, since there are TVs all over the place that use FM transmitters for the audio so that you can tune into the specific screen that you&#8217;re watching.  The Zune built-in FM receiver would be handy for that, which the iPod lacks (although can be achived with Apple&#8217;s special headphones).</p>
<p>Hey, maybe that&#8217;s what PA Semi was bought for: integration.  Apple could easily add an FM receiver to the iPod with probably just one chip, but that&#8217;s still increased component cost and manufacturing complexity.  But if they&#8217;re making their own custom chips, then why not throw in additional features?  The only cost is in the additional engineering effort.</p>
<p>I usually agree with Jobs&#8217; &#8220;less is more&#8221; philosophy, but there have been occasions when I wished I could pull in some radio.</p>
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		<title>By: David Dennis</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 15:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8195</guid>
		<description>That's pretty funny about the booth at Ted.  I would have appreciated getting a free copy of Vista (I wonder what "Edition" it was), since once I finally upgrade to a MacBook Pro, I'll really need one to test my web sites and to satisfy my morbid curiosity about it.  

I know somebody with the first generation Zune and I got to try it.  It looks positively Paleolithic next to the iPod Touch/iPhone.

My local Wal*Mart put Zunes in front of their music player displays and iPods were shoved in the back.  I would guess that's why Wal*Mart sells so many relative to other stores.  Microsoft is probably giving them a killer price, but oddly enough they are not passing it on to customers.

D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s pretty funny about the booth at Ted.  I would have appreciated getting a free copy of Vista (I wonder what &#8220;Edition&#8221; it was), since once I finally upgrade to a MacBook Pro, I&#8217;ll really need one to test my web sites and to satisfy my morbid curiosity about it.  </p>
<p>I know somebody with the first generation Zune and I got to try it.  It looks positively Paleolithic next to the iPod Touch/iPhone.</p>
<p>My local Wal*Mart put Zunes in front of their music player displays and iPods were shoved in the back.  I would guess that&#8217;s why Wal*Mart sells so many relative to other stores.  Microsoft is probably giving them a killer price, but oddly enough they are not passing it on to customers.</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: harrywolf</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8178</link>
		<dc:creator>harrywolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 04:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8178</guid>
		<description>I honestly doubt that there are more than 200,000 zunes in actual use by consumers out there, (that have been paid for, not given, promo'ed, picked up at bargain bin sales etc).

At consumer price, 2 million zunes 'sold' equals a value of $500 million bucks.

I have no evidence, but instinct tells me that Microsoft are hiding a disaster, or a crime,  of monumental size.

These guys have to be accountable to shareholders, at some point, for all the lost money on bad or useless  products.

Is it possible that Microsoft has some nasty and illegal tricks that allow money to be transferred in the form of objects paid for but not really sold?

Hubris knows no limits, by its nature......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly doubt that there are more than 200,000 zunes in actual use by consumers out there, (that have been paid for, not given, promo&#8217;ed, picked up at bargain bin sales etc).</p>
<p>At consumer price, 2 million zunes &#8217;sold&#8217; equals a value of $500 million bucks.</p>
<p>I have no evidence, but instinct tells me that Microsoft are hiding a disaster, or a crime,  of monumental size.</p>
<p>These guys have to be accountable to shareholders, at some point, for all the lost money on bad or useless  products.</p>
<p>Is it possible that Microsoft has some nasty and illegal tricks that allow money to be transferred in the form of objects paid for but not really sold?</p>
<p>Hubris knows no limits, by its nature&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gregz</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8176</link>
		<dc:creator>gregz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8176</guid>
		<description>Last night I was shopping at Target. Even though Target hasn't updated it electronics section in about 5 years I still find my self browsing the electronics aisles every time I visit a Target. So I'm walking down the MP3 player aisle and there is another couple looking at the Zune case (which has got to be one of the worst displays in modern retail, the last time I checked most of the zune displays still use plastic mock-ups of the last generation Zune). Finally they call over the electronics attendant and ask for a four gig Zune. I really wanted to point out all the reasons an Ipod mini blows the Zune out of the water. But in the end I figured, "hey if this yuppie couple really wants to put up with all the problems that are going to come up in a year or so when M$ finally lets the Zune die, let them." So I bit my tongue because it fun to imagine the look on all the Zune owners faces when M$ pull the plug on its Zune store server, like it did with the MSN Mp3 store. 2 to 3 years max before this inevitably happens. Although now that 2 million and 1 Zunes have sold it could save the whole division.

Has anyone else noticed that the dictionary in Leopard doesn't recognize Zune as a word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last night I was shopping at Target. Even though Target hasn&#8217;t updated it electronics section in about 5 years I still find my self browsing the electronics aisles every time I visit a Target. So I&#8217;m walking down the MP3 player aisle and there is another couple looking at the Zune case (which has got to be one of the worst displays in modern retail, the last time I checked most of the zune displays still use plastic mock-ups of the last generation Zune). Finally they call over the electronics attendant and ask for a four gig Zune. I really wanted to point out all the reasons an Ipod mini blows the Zune out of the water. But in the end I figured, &#8220;hey if this yuppie couple really wants to put up with all the problems that are going to come up in a year or so when M$ finally lets the Zune die, let them.&#8221; So I bit my tongue because it fun to imagine the look on all the Zune owners faces when M$ pull the plug on its Zune store server, like it did with the MSN Mp3 store. 2 to 3 years max before this inevitably happens. Although now that 2 million and 1 Zunes have sold it could save the whole division.</p>
<p>Has anyone else noticed that the dictionary in Leopard doesn&#8217;t recognize Zune as a word.</p>
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		<title>By: dscottbuch</title>
		<link>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8174</link>
		<dc:creator>dscottbuch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 21:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/09/zune-sales-still-in-the-toilet/#comment-8174</guid>
		<description>Also, regarding WalMart - at least on the MP3 page the 'top sellers' sort is identical to the 'featured' sort.  A little misleading!!!   This was both viewing all mp3 players, apple players, or zune players.  I gave up checking at that point.  

Typical walmart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, regarding WalMart - at least on the MP3 page the &#8216;top sellers&#8217; sort is identical to the &#8216;featured&#8217; sort.  A little misleading!!!   This was both viewing all mp3 players, apple players, or zune players.  I gave up checking at that point.  </p>
<p>Typical walmart.</p>
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